There are also some interesting links between the Bush family and both the Saudi royal family and the bin Ladens. I feel a migriane coming on and therefore am not in proper shape for political debate. But if anyone knows about this, it might be an interesting thing to discuss. I am of the opinion that politics among politicans is all about back-scratching, regardless of whose back it is, and regardless of what polticis each espouses.

Those are interesting things I have never heard before. If there was a real beginning to a cooperation, then it's good we took them out. Crazy mf's combined with lots of money is bad. Think the Spruce Goose.

I still think it a great big leap to say Saddam was behind 9/11 though.

Our political system is terribly corrupt, which is why I still like Nader.

There will always be corruption in politics...but with the pervasiveness of media it is actually less corrupt now than it ever has been.

I think you would be surprised if you knew the number of state and federal hypertechnical laws that are so difficult for even honest politicians and their staffs to correctly follow. These rules/laws are often made as a result of politically motivated witch-hunts and are so vaugue that they can often be twisted in any way no matter what you do. This is why more good people are not in politics, too much risk and too little reward.

My opinion, the last thing government needs to "clean it up" is more Nader-style "reform". We create our own scandals with it...then create the perception of a corrupt government, while those who are willing to lie (and make false accusations) the most rise to the top in the name of "change".

How much do you know about what Nader would like to do?

I think "corporate welfare" should be addressed. Also the lobbying system.

I agree on "corporate welfare", though it's never been explained to me exactly what that is. Nonetheless, I don't think the government should be subsidizing corporations (with the notable exception of an immediate and threatening national emergency) any more than they should be subsidizing anything else.

Lobbying is exactly what I am talking about. There are so many campaign-finance laws that pay-to-play has been virtually eliminated (even the appearance of improper acts can result in a felony charge). If a politician or staff member buys a lobbyist a beer, they can be prosecuted. Though it still makes a great sound-byte for a certain crowd. Plus, lobbyists don't represent just business, they represent groups of citizens who give $10 or $20 dollars here and there to have someone watch over the government and push for their issue (whatever it may be...pro-life, pro-choice, pro-gun, whatever). Many times, it's these lobbyists who are the only ones informing the public about what is going on behind the scenes. Their presence is vital, and they are regulated enough.

I'll have to consult some left-wing websites and get back to you on lobbyists. ;)

There are lots of kinds of corporate welfare. The one I dislike the most is the practice of granting corporations local tax breaks as an incentive for bringing jobs to a city.

"If you move your microchip factory to Green Bay, you won't have to pay state or local taxes for 10 years."

Polamex, I just got this e-mail back from a policy-wonk friend of mine...this was his response to my questions about what corporate wellfare specifically is:

"Farm subsidies, using Boeing Corporation to very expensively re-furbish old airliners into aerial reuelers for the Air Force, but mostly money set aside by the federal government (usually in the Commerce or Agriculture Department) that goes to a particular corporation to "research" something. There actually is a lot of agreement by the Left and the Right on the need to trim corporate welfare expenditures, but the definitions by both can differ quite dramatically."

On lobbyists, don't get me wrong...there can still be under-the-table deals (you'll never totally eliminate that), but besides the issue-lobbyists I talked about, there is actually a pretty good balance between the business and union lobby. Also, there are small-business associations that employ lobbyists as well, so it's not just corporations.

It is a slippery slope. Is it fair that a company could go 10 years without paying any taxes, while all the employees are paying taxes..? Maybe not. *But* would you rather that company go overseas than go to Green Bay? In the latter case no one is paying any taxes because no one has a job.

Yeah, I didn't address outsourcing. I deleted my last line of "Have a law against this and against outsourcing, and we'll be all set."

I'm curious as to what the Dude thinks about outsourcing and making some sort of law/tariff against it.

I'm a big fan of The Big Lebowski, so I prefer saying "The Dude".

That movie is exactly the context I am using the name in so feel free. It's one of my favorites!

I think if you ban "outsourcing" you then have to ban "insourcing" as well. For every American job that goes overseas there is an American worker assembling Toyotas or some other foreign product within our shores and getting paid pretty well for it in many cases.

I think its about 20 years to late to impose that kind of regulation, even if I wanted to.

This is what happens when you fuck a stranger in the ass.

By the way, I have no problem with governments (local ones especially) offering those kind of tax incentives to attract business. Unless its a direct subsidy, to me its not "welfare".

Could you please cite that statistic on "insourcing"?

I wasn't really offering a statistic, just kind of throwing out a general concept. Since you asked, however, the following is an excerpt from an article on the Digital Freedom Network website, the author is Alicia Burns. I'm sure you could find the mentioned Chamber of Commerce Report with a little effort.

"According to a U.S. Chamber of Commerce report released in April 2004, the outsourcing naysayers overlook several crucial long-term aspects outsourcing and its insourcing counterpart contribute to the domestic economy. The labor shortage the United States will face in the coming decades due to baby boomer retirement, the large surplus enjoyed in the services trade sector, and the beneficial impact international trade has on labor are virtually unmentioned aspects of U.S economic reality by those who condemn Benedict Arnold CEOs. Ultimately, international trade and investment leads to peaceful, prosperous societies that are efficient, productive and successful."

Nobody fucks....with the Jesus!

Four equally great quotes:

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to the problem...government IS the problem" -Ronald Reagan

"This aggression against Kuwait will not stand" - George H.W. Bush

"This aggression will not stand, man" - The Dude

"Shut the fuck up, Donny" - Walter